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	<title>Comments on: 12. &#8220;Contra Copyright, Again&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://libertarianpapers.org/2011/12-mcelroy-contra-copyright-again/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://libertarianpapers.org/2011/12-mcelroy-contra-copyright-again/</link>
	<description>A Journal of Libertarian Scholarship</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 24 Apr 2013 18:59:49 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: McElroy: &#8220;On the Subject of Intellectual Property&#8221; (1981)</title>
		<link>http://libertarianpapers.org/2011/12-mcelroy-contra-copyright-again/comment-page-1/#comment-7528</link>
		<dc:creator>McElroy: &#8220;On the Subject of Intellectual Property&#8221; (1981)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Mar 2013 16:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianpapers.org/?p=1701#comment-7528</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] &#8220;Retrospective&#8221; section of Wendy McElroy&#8217;s 2011 Libertarian Papers article “Contra Copyright, Again,” she discusses the beginnings of the modern libertarian anti-IP movement in the 1980s, [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;Retrospective&#8221; section of Wendy McElroy&#8217;s 2011 Libertarian Papers article “Contra Copyright, Again,” she discusses the beginnings of the modern libertarian anti-IP movement in the 1980s, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Four Historical Phases of IP Abolitionism</title>
		<link>http://libertarianpapers.org/2011/12-mcelroy-contra-copyright-again/comment-page-1/#comment-7477</link>
		<dc:creator>The Four Historical Phases of IP Abolitionism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2012 19:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianpapers.org/?p=1701#comment-7477</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Wendy McElroy in works such as Copyright and Patent in Benjamin Tucker’s periodical Liberty and Contra Copyright, Again, early libertarian and proto-libertarians and anarchists in the late 1800s had vigorous debates on [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Wendy McElroy in works such as Copyright and Patent in Benjamin Tucker’s periodical Liberty and Contra Copyright, Again, early libertarian and proto-libertarians and anarchists in the late 1800s had vigorous debates on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tucker on Spooner&#8217;s One Flaw</title>
		<link>http://libertarianpapers.org/2011/12-mcelroy-contra-copyright-again/comment-page-1/#comment-6907</link>
		<dc:creator>Tucker on Spooner&#8217;s One Flaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2012 22:23:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianpapers.org/?p=1701#comment-6907</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Wendy McElroy in works such as Copyright and Patent in Benjamin Tucker’s periodical Liberty and Contra Copyright, Again, early libertarian and proto-libertarians and anarchists in the late 1800s had vigorous debates on [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Wendy McElroy in works such as Copyright and Patent in Benjamin Tucker’s periodical Liberty and Contra Copyright, Again, early libertarian and proto-libertarians and anarchists in the late 1800s had vigorous debates on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Brown</title>
		<link>http://libertarianpapers.org/2011/12-mcelroy-contra-copyright-again/comment-page-1/#comment-6775</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:08:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianpapers.org/?p=1701#comment-6775</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The key that you are missing John is that digitized &quot;property&quot; has a near-zero cost to produce.  Just about anyone can easily click &quot;copy&quot; at virtually zero cost.  A gold coin on the other hand does not have a near-zero cost of production.  On the contrary since the substance known as gold is scarce and the tools to produce a coin from the gold is scarce as well the cost is very high to produce a coin.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The key that you are missing John is that digitized &#8220;property&#8221; has a near-zero cost to produce.  Just about anyone can easily click &#8220;copy&#8221; at virtually zero cost.  A gold coin on the other hand does not have a near-zero cost of production.  On the contrary since the substance known as gold is scarce and the tools to produce a coin from the gold is scarce as well the cost is very high to produce a coin.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Brown</title>
		<link>http://libertarianpapers.org/2011/12-mcelroy-contra-copyright-again/comment-page-1/#comment-6774</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianpapers.org/?p=1701#comment-6774</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So it&#039;s a thing...  So what?  I fail to see how &quot;it&#039;s a thing&quot; is a valid theory of owning patterns.  Just because something is a &quot;thing&quot; doesn&#039;t mean it&#039;s ownable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So it&#8217;s a thing&#8230;  So what?  I fail to see how &#8220;it&#8217;s a thing&#8221; is a valid theory of owning patterns.  Just because something is a &#8220;thing&#8221; doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s ownable.</p>
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		<title>By: cobaco</title>
		<link>http://libertarianpapers.org/2011/12-mcelroy-contra-copyright-again/comment-page-1/#comment-6760</link>
		<dc:creator>cobaco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 21:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianpapers.org/?p=1701#comment-6760</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[(yea I know I&#039;m late to the party, just came across a link to this page)

[quote]Should we, following your logic, conclude that the “price drops to zero” for gold coins just because the quantity of atoms in the universe is practically infinite?[/quote]

No, because there&#039;s a crucial difference between gold coins and digital goods: While the quantity of atoms in the universe may be practically infinite. The availability is not. 

It is the quantity and the availability in combination that determine wether a good is scarce (and thus valuable).

When you create a digital good, the value is not in the good, that&#039;s a commodity by nature, it&#039;s in the time you put in.

The thing about time is that once spent you can&#039;t recoup it, so if you want to get paid for your time you had better convince someone or somegroup to do so before you spent it. That&#039;s what things like kickstart are for.

As to your &#039;argument&#039; in http://jneilschulman.rationalreview.com/2011/03/the-libertarian-case-for-ip/ the point you make is properly about trademark/identity not copyright. 
That&#039;s a completely different area of law altogether.

(and your argument is a great example of why lumping copyright/patents/trademark altogether under the heading IP is a real good way to muddy the waters)

The copying of a digital good does not have the quality issues the copying of a natural good has. Consequently the copying of a digital good (properly attributed) spreads your trademark, not dilutes it.

This increasing it&#039;s value, not diminishes it, the person doing it has not taken something away from you, on the contrary he just helped to increase the value of your brand for free.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(yea I know I&#8217;m late to the party, just came across a link to this page)</p>
<p>[quote]Should we, following your logic, conclude that the “price drops to zero” for gold coins just because the quantity of atoms in the universe is practically infinite?[/quote]</p>
<p>No, because there&#8217;s a crucial difference between gold coins and digital goods: While the quantity of atoms in the universe may be practically infinite. The availability is not. </p>
<p>It is the quantity and the availability in combination that determine wether a good is scarce (and thus valuable).</p>
<p>When you create a digital good, the value is not in the good, that&#8217;s a commodity by nature, it&#8217;s in the time you put in.</p>
<p>The thing about time is that once spent you can&#8217;t recoup it, so if you want to get paid for your time you had better convince someone or somegroup to do so before you spent it. That&#8217;s what things like kickstart are for.</p>
<p>As to your &#8216;argument&#8217; in <a href="http://jneilschulman.rationalreview.com/2011/03/the-libertarian-case-for-ip/" rel="nofollow">http://jneilschulman.rationalreview.com/2011/03/the-libertarian-case-for-ip/</a> the point you make is properly about trademark/identity not copyright.<br />
That&#8217;s a completely different area of law altogether.</p>
<p>(and your argument is a great example of why lumping copyright/patents/trademark altogether under the heading IP is a real good way to muddy the waters)</p>
<p>The copying of a digital good does not have the quality issues the copying of a natural good has. Consequently the copying of a digital good (properly attributed) spreads your trademark, not dilutes it.</p>
<p>This increasing it&#8217;s value, not diminishes it, the person doing it has not taken something away from you, on the contrary he just helped to increase the value of your brand for free.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://libertarianpapers.org/2011/12-mcelroy-contra-copyright-again/comment-page-1/#comment-6705</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jun 2011 17:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianpapers.org/?p=1701#comment-6705</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s a false positive is it not?  Philliam seems to be describing how technology has allowed copies of entertainment media drop the price to zero.  That is not to say the showing isn&#039;t valuable in any regards.  The entertainment just has value in a variety of other methods.

If you have a TV series, one episode on the internet isn&#039;t a big deal.  When the entire series is on Netflix, it provides more value.  You pay for that access.

A gold coin can not be digitized and copied.  It has a certain value based on what others are willing to give for it.  It&#039;s somewhat dubious to try to mix apples and oranges just because both are fruit.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a false positive is it not?  Philliam seems to be describing how technology has allowed copies of entertainment media drop the price to zero.  That is not to say the showing isn&#8217;t valuable in any regards.  The entertainment just has value in a variety of other methods.</p>
<p>If you have a TV series, one episode on the internet isn&#8217;t a big deal.  When the entire series is on Netflix, it provides more value.  You pay for that access.</p>
<p>A gold coin can not be digitized and copied.  It has a certain value based on what others are willing to give for it.  It&#8217;s somewhat dubious to try to mix apples and oranges just because both are fruit.</p>
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		<title>By: John Harris</title>
		<link>http://libertarianpapers.org/2011/12-mcelroy-contra-copyright-again/comment-page-1/#comment-6704</link>
		<dc:creator>John Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:32:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianpapers.org/?p=1701#comment-6704</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry, philliam, but your argument is absurd. A gold coin consists of atoms and atoms exist in practically-infinite supply (like your &quot;1s and 0s&quot;). Should we, following your logic, conclude that the &quot;price drops to zero&quot; for gold coins just because the quantity of atoms in the universe is practically infinite? Even information has a physical manifestation. &quot;1s and 0s&quot; as you put it are just a representation of that physical reality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, philliam, but your argument is absurd. A gold coin consists of atoms and atoms exist in practically-infinite supply (like your &#8220;1s and 0s&#8221;). Should we, following your logic, conclude that the &#8220;price drops to zero&#8221; for gold coins just because the quantity of atoms in the universe is practically infinite? Even information has a physical manifestation. &#8220;1s and 0s&#8221; as you put it are just a representation of that physical reality.</p>
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		<title>By: philliam</title>
		<link>http://libertarianpapers.org/2011/12-mcelroy-contra-copyright-again/comment-page-1/#comment-6703</link>
		<dc:creator>philliam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianpapers.org/?p=1701#comment-6703</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Neil -

Sorry you had to try corner a non-existent market. Once something becomes 1s and 0s it becomes an infinite supply and therefore the price drops to zero. Kinda hard to claim ownership over something that is infinite and nigh-zero cost to produce, even if it took your &#039;blood, sweat, and tears&#039; to make the original copy. In fact I would be proud people  Torrented my work as then I would know people would be reading it and therefore reaching an audience.  I&#039;m not a harcor libertarian scholar, but this isn&#039;t really that hard of a concept to grasp. You can still make money in today&#039;s internet-world but its a fundamentally different ballgame then your &quot;write a manuscript and sell it for $15 bucks a pop&quot; era of the 20th century. 

Welcome to the Digital Age.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neil -</p>
<p>Sorry you had to try corner a non-existent market. Once something becomes 1s and 0s it becomes an infinite supply and therefore the price drops to zero. Kinda hard to claim ownership over something that is infinite and nigh-zero cost to produce, even if it took your &#8216;blood, sweat, and tears&#8217; to make the original copy. In fact I would be proud people  Torrented my work as then I would know people would be reading it and therefore reaching an audience.  I&#8217;m not a harcor libertarian scholar, but this isn&#8217;t really that hard of a concept to grasp. You can still make money in today&#8217;s internet-world but its a fundamentally different ballgame then your &#8220;write a manuscript and sell it for $15 bucks a pop&#8221; era of the 20th century. </p>
<p>Welcome to the Digital Age.</p>
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		<title>By: John Harris</title>
		<link>http://libertarianpapers.org/2011/12-mcelroy-contra-copyright-again/comment-page-1/#comment-6702</link>
		<dc:creator>John Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2011 13:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianpapers.org/?p=1701#comment-6702</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kinsella, Richman, Schmoe - you should be ashamed of yourselves. Instead of dealing with Schulman&#039;s reasonable arguments and propositions, you have acted as weasels.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kinsella, Richman, Schmoe &#8211; you should be ashamed of yourselves. Instead of dealing with Schulman&#8217;s reasonable arguments and propositions, you have acted as weasels.</p>
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